So what even is “real” software anyway? We’ve got one of my favorite writers and technologists on the show today to help answer that and speak to this weird moment we’re in, but first…
BREAKING NEWS!
The Webby Awards have named Future Around & Find Out the best technology podcast of 2026!!! Not the popular choice winner — but thank you for voting in the popularity contest! — but the main/judges’ winner. I’m stunned. Our indie podcast beat The Verge, The Atlantic and more…
Thank you so much for your support! I confess that I often feel like a crazy person for having returned to making media (my first career) after having escaped its clutches more than a decade ago to go into tech/product. And then sometimes I don’t feel so crazy! Today is one of those days. 🙂
And now I’m going to ask for your help (again)… Here are a few ways you can future proof this indie media company…
Tell a friend about Future Around & Find Out. Today. Podcasts grow when friends tell friends about their favorite shows. There is truly no better way to grow. Please send them to futurearound.com
Tell a potential sponsor about the show. Do you or does someone you know have product/brand that you want to put in front of senior technologists with budget authority? Podcasts are an incredible way to earn trust with potential buyers. Please reach out: [email protected]
Help me write my no-more-than-five word speech! The Webby Awards are famous for their five word speeches. Got an idea for what mine should be? Email me!
Support FAFO financially. As you can see, I am ambitious and building for… the Future. That includes more episodes where incredible technologists grapple with the future, a better newsletter (that does a lot more than tell you about the latest episode), events, etc… $10 a month would mean a lot. Or you can go bigger if you’re really into it. Thank you!
OK, on today’s episode…
So what even is “real” software anyway?
Someone builds an app over the weekend. It works. It looks good. And then the search begins — for the asterisk. Security? Design quality? Can it go to production? Paul Ford says we’re in a new era: "I can't believe it's not software!"
Paul is the co-founder of Aboard, where he helps organizations build custom software quickly, using AI tools. He's also one of my favorite tech writers. You may know him from "What Is Code," the opus he wrote for Bloomberg Businessweek a decade ago or from his writing in the New York Times, including his recent opinion piece, The A.I. Disruption We’ve Been Waiting for Has Arrived. Or perhaps you’re hip to Ftrain, where he’s been writing for longer than we’ve had the word “blog.”
In this conversation, recorded at Aboard’s podcast studio (Paul and his cofounder also host a great show), we dig into the strange new world where roles are colliding, software* gets built quickly, and no one is quite sure what to teach their kids.
We get into:
What Paul calls "the great search for the asterisk" — the moment someone demos an app and everyone scrambles to find the catch
How the power dynamic between engineers and everyone else is fundamentally shifting — and why that's both liberating and destabilizing
Why vibe coded prototypes are changing how agencies pitch and price their work — and why pricing is "very unresolved"
The skills that actually matter now: client communication, systems thinking, and depth over velocity
Why "the environmental costs [of AI] have become essentially a truthful folk narrative to talk about how difficult and scary and painful it is to see your life get continually smashed into bits."
What he's teaching his kids (hint: it's not to code)
Chapters:
01:40 “We’re in a funny moment now” – catching up on the ten years since “What Is Code?”
05:30 “ You gotta stop fighting” - AI code is genuinely useful, caveats and all
08:44 AI enables people who could never afford custom software to have it
09:50 Why he knew he’d get yelled at for his recent piece in the NYTimes
13:00 “AI washing” and job cuts
14:50 Paul’s theory for why the market oscillates so wildly on AI news + are we going to vibe code our own DoorDash?
17:00 What’s the hardest thing about building with AI right now?
19:36 Hiring, the most in-demand skills, and “forward-deployed engineers”
27:50 “Product is still hard” – in response to: “What is something that AI will never be great at?”
31:36 “What is something that sounds like science fiction, but that will soon be real — and commonplace?”
32:46 Why Paul is excited about world models (and thinks LLM’s are topping out)
36:06 Why environmental concerns have become a “truthful folk narrative about how difficult and scary” AI is
39:26 There is no magic solution for climate (but one positive thing AI can do is help digest climate data)
41:26 Why kids should learn systems thinking
If you don’t already get Future Around & Find Out emails, go ahead:
Future on…
~ Dan